User talk:The Kings Raven

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Flyboy254 02:07, September 13, 2012 (UTC) *Looks around* MUSE IS BACK BABY! YEAH! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgDrJ5Z2rKw

Mine too :) But I've been working directly on the google docs. I don't mind working here instead but we should work on the same site.

The Kings Raven 09:53, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Flyboy254 13:50, September 13, 2012 (UTC) Actually, my new computer will only let me work on this, the Doc page is inaccessable to me now.

In that case I shall exclusively work on this site too :)

I'm glad we made this before you lose access to the doc site.

The Kings Raven 13:57, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Flyboy254 14:01, September 13, 2012 (UTC) Tell me about it. But now Kings, we can finish this. *Straps on gear* Let's do it.

The Kings Raven 14:11, September 13, 2012 (UTC) : Sure! as you can see I've made some progress already, what I'm going to do is get started on crating a PDF. The first 3 chapters are finsihed (if I can resist the urge to tinker) so I'll get them prepared while PDF stuff is fresh in my mind.

P.S. What font do you want me to use for chapter and section headers?

Something artsy looking, like script, but could we make the borders burning thorns?

The Kings Raven 14:31, September 13, 2012 (UTC) : Burning thorns might be hard, because somebody would first of all have to create that border by hand. Possibly as a vector image. Alternatively it might be possible to do some sort of post processing; but either way the border would have to be created first.

Flyboy254 (talk) 16:34, September 13, 2012 (UTC) Do you know anyone who can do that kind of work for free?

The Kings Raven (talk) 18:49, September 13, 2012 (UTC) Nope, but when somebody turned by Baker Street Irregulars into a PDF they used a hunter border, I think Mr Gone might have it so I'll try and figure that out sometime.

In the meanwhile: Feast your eyes the third and forth chapters would probably each take longer than the entire first two, all the fidlely formating for mechanics heavy stuff. But it's coming out nicely!

The Kings Raven (talk) 19:02, September 13, 2012 (UTC) Oh btw, I included something we discussed ages agou; that the Song of Erin serve as both the occult experts and also the moral officers, keeping everyone's spirits up and ready to uphold the vigil. If you don't like it just give me a nudge.

Flyboy254 (talk) 03:03, September 14, 2012 (UTC) Good news, a friend of mine gave me a book on "fairie" spells, we could use this book to our advantage.

Flyboy254 (talk) 05:10, September 14, 2012 (UTC) Also, I call dibs on first edit of the Tenebrous Seas Hunter section.

The Kings Raven (talk) 06:51, September 14, 2012 (UTC) Tenebrous Seas is pretty much dead :( so you can do whatever you like with it. Do you have WoD: Book of the Dead? The sections for the various supernatural creatures were planned to be in that style. If not have a look at the Changeling section.

Flyboy254 (talk) 14:50, September 14, 2012 (UTC) HA! Like something so small could stop me! Do you forget that I treat hunter like it's a stock on the rise? I'll make it so valuable that I'll be rich! (Figuratively)

Also, something hit me while reading the PDF. We need to find a way to put the changeling skull into flame, like the other three books.

The Kings Raven (talk) 19:32, September 14, 2012 (UTC) Moving all your recent edits into the PDF is actually a lot of work; I have to redo all the formating tags by hand. Instead of editing Chapters 1-3 on the wiki, I suggest focusing on Chapter 4, then when I have them all in a PDF I can send you the raw tex files and you can make changes there.

As for the skull, I leave that to you ;)

Flyboy254 (talk) 19:37, September 14, 2012 (UTC) You realize that'll be just a cheap little jpeg, right?

Roger that, I'll just edit what I can here for now though. Would it take long to compile it all after I'm done?

The Kings Raven (talk) 20:07, September 14, 2012 (UTC) I've added all your corrections; but what I'm going to do is wait for you to finish proof editing the rest before adding it to the PDF.

Flyboy254 (talk) 22:55, September 16, 2012 (UTC) Well, I put the skull in. How's it look?

The Kings Raven (talk) 06:53, September 17, 2012 (UTC) I wish there was a more polite way to say this, but it dosn't look good. The skull itself is too small, and it looks like a bad photo negative. Maybe you could ask the forum for help on this one?

Flyboy254 (talk) 14:32, September 17, 2012 (UTC) Don't worry, that's what I needed to hear. To the forum it is!

The Kings Raven (talk) 12:26, September 19, 2012 (UTC) Mind if I try my hand at the Changeling/Human relations? I want to talk a bit more about how it's shaped by psychology, and the complexities of Changeling's views on slavery; Lost hate it, privateers/loyalits do it, and even lost don't always agree on what counts as slavery.

The Kings Raven (talk) 16:30, September 19, 2012 (UTC) How does this look?

A relationship between a human and the fae can be many things, but it is rarely normal. Sometimes just by being around a fae can make life literally a fairy tale. The evil stepmother gets the police on her case for abuse, and your fae boyfriend is willing to make you his wife forever more. Sometimes the situation is reversed, and you're beloved step-sisters fall in with a bad crowd and become wicked. Relationships with faeries, like with any human group, is varied and open to interpretation. What may seem like a poor bastard enslaved by a fae princess is a man who, for the first time in his life, has a purpose, and a happily married fae may have been tricked into their relationship by a cruel and petty husband.

First, there's changelings; the faeries who have the greatest ability, and often the greatest desire, to have some kind of “normal” relationship with ordinary humans. changelings have suffered greatly in Arcadia, and their scars mean they will struggle to cope with normality for all their lives. changelings require stability to an extent that few humans can understand. Even after it's explained, few people could really appreciate just how distressing it is for a Changeling when you break or even bend a casual promise. No more than a changeling could really appreciate just how frustrating it is when you try to define your friendships in legalistic terms, and hold people to them. What is worse is that when the changeling's need for stability is not accommodated, when she gets fired from a job, or when her girlfriend sends a last minuet text rescheduling their date for next Thursday; a Changeling may suffer panic attacks or other psychological breaks which combined with a troll's brute strength of a hag's subtle curses can cause no end of damage.

It might even be best if ordinary humans and changelings kept their distance, but that is rarely the case. Changelings were once human, and it is only natural that they would want to re-establish links with old friends, family or just rejoin the society they consider to be their home. There is still lots that ordinary humans can offer them: Unless the Changeling has exactly the right tricks they have exactly the same reasons to hire a skilled professional or an accountant as anyone else; any human retainer can help the lost navigate human society and social mores, and the human tendency towards sanity makes mortals especially helpful at counteracting the faerie inclination towards madness. Most Changelings are infertile but still wish to be parents, creating a long tradition of faerie godmothers. In every interaction between humans and changelings there is potential for disaster; though many changlings find the idea of using humans as pawns to be uncomfortably similar to their own abductors, their definition of pawn or slave can be rather... unique. More than one changeling has felt that working for days without sleep is the correct thing to do if you agreed on a deadline you can't deliver.

Humans who are in the know can also see many reasons to interact with humans. The stories of household brownies and shoemaking elves have some basis in fact, given the opportunity many would leap to hire such an efficient worker. Faerie magic can be a temptation: Health, wealth, happiness, a faerie can grant your wishes. However the fae know well that magic always comes with a price, for the fae's own dread powers this price has often been paid in advance through collective bargaining by the faerie race. On a more personal level you cold say a faerie's torment in Arcadia was the price. But for mortals, the price must still be paid; it is most commonly written into the Pledge a mortal signs to get that magic, and woe betide any who fails to uphold on their side of the bargain.

If one word could summarise the relationship between humans and changelings it's effort. For any relationship to work both sides will have to work for it; the changeling will have to put effort into accepting that humans do not think of their relationships like a legalistic contract and do see a difference between betraying someone and forgetting to return a book on time. The human will have to put effort into accommodating the changeling's psychological needs.

As for those true monsters; the True Fae. The most common understanding of relations between the gentry and mortals is simple, the Gentry sees a person it like, then abducts them to a hellish existence in Arcadia. This case is common, and terrible, but it is not the only way humans and the Gentry interact. Did you know that if a True Fae gets too curious about some part of ordinary existence it can forget who it really is and loose all it's powers, until something reminds it, usually with disastrous results.

When the Lords of Arcadia choose to interact with humanity the most important thing to remember is that they have no sense of proportion. In return for the simplest favour a member of the Gentry might hand down untold wealth, but a simple misspoken word can result in a grudge that lasts for generations. Even today there are a few towns and families enjoying the fruits of a faerie's blessing, but only a few for such blessings are inherently dangerous. If nothing else the increased attention only makes it likely that the True Fae will hear something that offends it, but most of these blessings come with a list of musts and cant's that have to be followed with legalistic, even religious devotion. Indeed, sometimes the True Fae even present themselves as gods, they certainly have the power, and while it would be foolish to assume that all of the gods in mythology were True Fae it would be equally foolish to assume that none of them were.

It is these times, when a True Fae binds itself to a community that most of humanities interaction with the True Fae takes place (or at least, most of the interaction on Earth; which is what hunters are most able to affect or even notice). Though Gentry abductions are far more common, they require little time upon Earth.

Flyboy254 (talk) 20:02, September 19, 2012 (UTC) Looks good. I have to ask though, did anything I wrote previously make sense?

The Kings Raven (talk) 18:37, September 20, 2012 (UTC) Most of it did make sense; the only part that didn't was failing to distinguish between Changelings and True Fae when it came to slavery. The main thing was to try and get more details on Changelings attempts to fit in with humans and why that often goes wrong as well as bring in specific examples of unusual relationships that might make interesting stories.

Consider a group of Searchlight Priors trying to track down True Fae that have ties to mortal communities so they can wrangle the Favours (we have a new merit down) needed to rescue their loved ones.

Flyboy254 (talk) 15:36, September 21, 2012 (UTC) Dude, I just read some great Sidebar material for the Stewards. Apparently, England had an acient practice up to the 1700s, where a person was sealed alive into a building being built to serve as it's "eternal watchman". Maybe a sidebar about how just because it's an Agreement doesn't mean it'll be painless?

The Kings Raven (talk) 20:03, September 21, 2012 (UTC) Cool, there's a similar idea that the first person to be burried in a graveyard is also bound to be a watchman, but that was only until they got released. Obviously the Stewards don't like human sacrafice, who does, but it might be unavoidable sometimes and of course freeing those watchmen might make a nice plot hook.

71.249.185.9 03:54, October 13, 2012 (UTC) YYYYYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! *Slams back into the wiki* Any mail while I was gone?

The Kings Raven (talk) 08:39, October 13, 2012 (UTC) I presume that's you Flyboy. No mail, I started my masters degree so I have less time now. But we're almost done anyway. Scandanvian Faeries (origin of elves, trolls and dwarves, must have!), Germanic Faeries (Brothers Grim!), and that Fate in the Backgroud section. Maybe also tweak the Loyalists of Thule to say they own the unpublished works of the Brothers Grimm

Kings, did you take out the Fetch and Fae-Touched merits?

The Kings Raven (talk) 22:43, October 28, 2012 (UTC) Um, the Fae-Touched Merit is still there; I checked.

As for Fetches; I don't think we ever had a Fetch Merit. I do remember saying I felt that Fetches should be written up as monsters, with Dread Powers, and not as a Merit. There's some advice on that in Chapter Four.

Maybe include it as a sidebar with options then?

The Kings Raven (talk) 23:08, October 28, 2012 (UTC) I geninely think even a sidebar for a Fetch Merit is a bad idea; under the Changeling rules Fetches are explicitally as much of a monster as a Mage. Playable fetches are fine, but they should be written up using Dread Powers and not as Hunters with a Merit.

Fair. Now, we still need stats for the cop, right? And what happened to the Lord Stewards art?

The Kings Raven (talk) 23:20, October 28, 2012 (UTC) We do. And the Lords Stewads art is in progress, but I'm not entire sure how far it's gotten on account of both me and the artist having begun the university term in different cities.

Flyboy254 (talk) 23:23, October 28, 2012 (UTC) Yeah, that would be a problem. Still, home stretch.

Flyboy254 (talk) 04:39, November 6, 2012 (UTC) So does this mean we're ready to make the PDF? Or are we still missing some crucial piece of book?

The Kings Raven (talk) 10:30, November 6, 2012 (UTC) Almost, theres a few things left to do; and none of them are particularly big :) We need a section on Germanic Faeries, a write up for Billy Dee Richards, there's a section "Fate in the Background" that needs to be done. There's "Advice for running an action game". Finally, I need to think up an optional advantage for the puzzle method of navigating the hedge in chapter three.

BTW, you might be interested in this: http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=68727

Flyboy254 (talk) 14:15, November 6, 2012 (UTC) It does look fun, but I don't like using Skype unless it's with people I know.

Flyboy254 (talk) 14:31, November 6, 2012 (UTC) Also, here's a hopefully good bit for the back cover.

“A fairy I did spy one night,

Causing children dreadful fright,

So I did what I knew right,

And shot a .357 JHP round through its heart.



It doesn’t rhyme, whatever.



Fairies die all the same.”

Flyboy254 (talk) 20:29, November 10, 2012 (UTC) How go's it?

The Kings Raven (talk) 20:48, November 10, 2012 (UTC) busy busy busy busy busy busy busy busy busy busy busy busy busy. University is working me hard, but my new improved Hedge navigation stuff is complete. Best material I ever stole (with permission). Yourself?

Flyboy254 (talk) 17:14, November 11, 2012 (UTC) Soon as Christmas rolls around I can finally pay for the art for the Sons and Searchlight, what about your friend?

The Kings Raven (talk) 17:28, November 11, 2012 (UTC) Cool. My friend is even busier than I, but I think I might get the art during the Christmass break.

The Kings Raven (talk) 10:50, November 17, 2012 (UTC) I've loaded up something on Germanic Fae. Here's the current list of things to do: Billy Dee Richards, Fate in the Background, Advice for running an action game, art. Not much left :)

Flyboy254 (talk) 01:45, November 22, 2012 (UTC) Why is ORAS talking about the fae as "kind neighbors" instead of "Homo Eructus Acetus" and "Testing Volunteers"?

The Kings Raven (talk) 11:16, November 22, 2012 (UTC) That particular group of Null Mysteriis are quite explicitally supposed to be Open Minds. The idea I had was that unlike Rationalists or even Cataclismics, they believe in (or more accurately they think it's best not to rule out) the legends that if you call faeries "faeries", or "Homo Eructus Acetus" they'll hear you, be offended and come for revenge.

Flyboy254 (talk) 19:49, December 5, 2012 (UTC) Have information for Billy Dee Williams

Billy Dee Williams

Concept: Evangelical savior

Virtue: Faith

Vice: Pride

Profession: Religious Leader

Compact: Long Night (The Faithful)



Intelligence: 3 Strength: 3 Presence: 4

<p class="MsoNormal">Wits: 3 Dexterity: 1 Manipulation: 5

<p class="MsoNormal">Resolve: 4 Stamina: 1 Composure: 4

<p class="MsoNormal">

<p class="MsoNormal">Mental Skills

<p class="MsoNormal">Academics: 3

<p class="MsoNormal">Computer: 2

<p class="MsoNormal">Investigation: 2

<p class="MsoNormal">Medicine: 3

<p class="MsoNormal">Occult: 4

<p class="MsoNormal">Politics: 4

<p class="MsoNormal">

<p class="MsoNormal">Physical Skills

<p class="MsoNormal">Athletics: 2

<p class="MsoNormal">Brawl: 3

<p class="MsoNormal">Drive: 2

<p class="MsoNormal">Firearms: 2

<p class="MsoNormal">Larceny: 1

<p class="MsoNormal">Weaponry: 2

<p class="MsoNormal">

<p class="MsoNormal">Social Skills

<p class="MsoNormal">Empathy: 4

<p class="MsoNormal">Expression: 4

<p class="MsoNormal">Intimidation: 3 (Fire and Brimstone)

<p class="MsoNormal">Persuasion: 4 (Religious Rhetoric)

<p class="MsoNormal">Socialize: 4

<p class="MsoNormal">Streetwise: 5 (North Philly)

<p class="MsoNormal">

<p class="MsoNormal">Merits

<p class="MsoNormal">Danger Sense

<p class="MsoNormal">Encyclopedic Knowledge (Fairies)

<p class="MsoNormal">Holistic Awareness

<p class="MsoNormal">Meditative Mind

<p class="MsoNormal">Allies: Lord of Mercy Church: 2

<p class="MsoNormal">Fame: North Philly: 1

<p class="MsoNormal">Resources: 2

<p class="MsoNormal">Status: Long Night: 2

<p class="MsoNormal">The Kings Raven (talk) 20:55, December 5, 2012 (UTC) I've loaded it up and added an Apperance and Storytelling section. He still needs a background.

Flyboy254 (talk) 18:20, December 16, 2012 (UTC) How's that for a talk page?

The Kings Raven (talk) 22:54, December 16, 2012 (UTC) I don't know what you mean by "How's that for a Talk Page" but rest assured I haven't vanished. I've been formating up everything for a PDF. I now have all our material up and ready to go, I also wrote a section on information warfare games. All that's left is the Fate section.

Flyboy254 (talk) 01:05, December 17, 2012 (UTC) Sorry, I meant the Action Games segment

The Kings Raven (talk) 08:10, December 17, 2012 (UTC) I like that segment :)

Flyboy254 (talk) 21:34, December 17, 2012 (UTC) And it is finished! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!